Lost Coin notes October 2, 2007

Elaine Jarvik, a reporter with the *Deseret News*, visited the group this week to observe.  Daniel has asked her not to use any of our names, and he will read the final copy of any article she might write about the group. Because Elaine was there, and also for our own benefit, Daniel asked us to state our careers as well as introduce ourselves.  Daniel mentioned that our variety of occupations is interesting because this practice is *in life*, as opposed to the monastic traditions.

*Business*

*Next week we will meet on Monday, October 8th, because Daniel will be leaving the country for a few weeks.  Daniel encouraged us to meet while he's gone, and Elena offered her office as a meeting space.  (She's in the Moreau Medical Building, on the southeast corner of South Temple and 11th (or 12th? Elena?) East, on the first floor.)

The retreat will be the last weekend in November.  Daniel is still looking for office and meeting space for the group.

*Last Week*

Daniel recounted the basics of what our assignment was last week: conserving energy (by talking less, in particular).  He asked, what is it like to talk less?  But, he reminded, for us to do that, we have to * remember*.

For Elaine's benefit, Daniel gave a basic description of the group, which he condensed as being *to wake up*.

We talked about how talking less had worked last week.  One member said it was very awkward and difficult.  She found that she talks a lot just to fill spaces, and that even when she was remembering to talk less she'd still do it because it was too hard not to.  Daniel reminded us to observe our mechanical actions:  she didn't make the *decision* to fill empty spaces, she just did it mechanically, as we all do.

Another member found the exercise scary, because it's important to him that he be understood.  He said it had made him doubly conscious--he wanted to make sure he says what he's trying to say, but to do it with as few words as possible.

One member told how her husband had annoyed her.  She just "sat back with it" and the resolution was much quicker.  She realized that sometimes she talks a lot because she wants to make sure *her* point of view ("POV" from now on) is understood.

One person noted that the less he said, the less he was misunderstood.

Daniel asked whether any of us had had someone fail to understand our POV. We all had.  He posed the question:  maybe people just don't care about your POV?  What if we assumed nobody cares to hear our POV?  One member commented that that would be a relief.

Another student asked, but what about loved ones?  Daniel responded that most of them think they already know your POV.

Daniel said that it would be a very conscious act not to be a slave to the idea that we need to express our POV, and to express it clearly.

One member said she tries to pry her husband's POV from him.  Daniel said, maybe if you don't ferret so much, he'll come forward on his own.  For example, when he sees a movie with his wife, he knows that if he wants to hear her POV, he has to say nothing about his own and wait for her to express hers.  He mentioned Bob Dylan, who's one of the most interesting people around because he rarely expresses his POV.  The more we express our POV, the less interesting we are--people are more than an essay.

Daniel asked, what do we get out of it when we're expressing our POV?  One member responded that less talking led to more respect and formality. Daniel added that less talk means more questions from others.  He asked, when we're asserting our POV, aren't we also trying to teach them?  Trying to convince them that our POV is the right one?

We should look at the things we do and see what we accomplish--if you don't like it, it's almost certainly mechanical.

Another member mentioned that she'd just been on a river trip with a group of people.  She wanted to try to make a good impression on one person in particular, and normally that would mean that she'd talk more than usual. But because someone else had filled that role, she was able to be more quiet, and thinks she was ultimately more successful.

Daniel said that not talking is akin to meditating:  it frees up energy for other things.  He talked about how he hates to listen (and mentioned that if Shakyamuni Buddha himself were reincarnated and came to give five talks at the Zen center, Daniel would go to about two of them).

It's an illusion to think that people want us to speak more.

Many women want men to speak more--but many men are not relational (except at the beginning of a relationship, but then they revert to their default patterns).  He mentioned that to see whether someone is relational, you watch how they interact with others, not with you.

We then sat for about five minutes.  Daniel asked us to try to do nothing but to stay awake and relaxed.

*Identification*

Our new subject.

When we observe ourselves, we think that's "us."  Whatever "I" is in the forefront, we say, "that's me."  We don't see that the "I" is divided into many selves, and we are just what houses the whole thing.

This week, he asks us to observe ourselves--to see our lives as though we were the camera, the way we'd want our best friends to see us.  When you're doing this, don't think it's "you"-just that you're the observer.  You'll see yourself being mechanical--angry, scared, etc. when you don't want to be.  Just the seeing weakens the mechanical pattern.

So, this week, go back to watching and observing yourself.  What will make that hard is to *remember* to do it.  If we were awake, we could remember.  We're not asleep because we're bad, we're just awake or asleep. It's not a punitive thing--this is just the state of humanity.  All nature requires is that we live, maybe procreate, and die.  Gurdjieff would say that nothing in the universe happens for no reason.  So if you choose to fight to be awake, that means the universe requires a certain number of awake people, but *just a few*.

If you want to be awake, it's because you choose to.

We'll go back to reading Nichol, starting with "Birdlip, July 3, 1943." It's a commentary on self-observation and "I"s, and will be helpful this week.  (It's on page 302 of the paperback.  If you haven't ordered it online, I'm sure someone still has the link . . . I (Tawni) might also have it in pdf--just ask.)  Try to observe yourself for a couple of days, and then read it.

*Small groups*

We broke into small groups, with the assignment of choosing an "I", describing it, and observing it as we talked about it.  Daniel said we should use "he" or "she" when describing the particular "I," not to actually use the word "I."  We should try to get out of thinking mode and into our moving center, so it's more like watching a movie.  (Daniel gave an example:  "He will come into the house and see his son and immediately ask what's wrong.  He will try to get his son to sit down and talk . . . .") Doing this gives us more distance.

Daniel said we'll be surprised at how many mechanical, unnecessary behaviors we can get rid of easily just by observing them.  When you've seen the movie once, you don't have to do it anymore--you've seen that movie already!
